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April 2, 2011 / ghazwatulhind

Matter of Disbelievers in Islam

[9:73] O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!

[9:74] They swear by GOD that they never said it, although they have uttered the word of disbelief; they have disbelieved after becoming submitters. In fact, they gave up what they never had. They have rebelled even though GOD and His messenger have showered them with His grace and provisions. If they repent, it would be best for them. But if they turn away, GOD will commit them to painful retribution in this life and in the Hereafter. They will find no one on earth to be their lord and master.

[9:75] Some of them even pledged: “If GOD showered us with His grace, we would be charitable, and would lead a righteous life.”

[9:76] But when He did shower them with His provisions, they became stingy, and turned away in aversion.

[9:77] Consequently, He plagued them with hypocrisy in their hearts, till the day they meet Him. This is because they broke their promises to GOD, and because of their lying.

[9:78] Do they not realize that GOD knows their secrets, and their conspiracies, and that GOD is the Knower of all secrets?

[9:79] Those who criticize the generous believers for giving too much, and ridicule the poor believers for giving too little, GOD despises them. They have incurred a painful retribution.

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  1. ghazwatulhind / Apr 2 2011 8:39 pm

    Regarding O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites

    Holy Prophet Mohammad PBUH is asked to “Strive” (not strike) against who are

    1 – Disbelievers
    +
    2 – Hypocrites

    So being disbelievers is not the only criteria, it is the ones who are disbelievers as well as Hippocrates and apparently they say something else but behind the scene they do conspiracies against Islam or Prophet PBUH himself.

    What’s the area which troubles you here? This is beautiful sura which is giving directions to Prophet Mohammad PBUH to deal these people first. “Strive” is to exert effort, energy and attention and its certainly not “Attack or Kill”.

    iPak,

    Whats your point of mentioning this Sura?

  2. iPak / Apr 2 2011 9:52 pm

    Disbelievers, in other word infidels, Qoran says Hell awaits them. That is wrong. I believe hell awaits for the people that believe this.
    I do not care if a woman sucks another mans cock while you are away, that is why there are divorces. She can do and fuck whomever she likes and i will not lay a hand on her, so no, i disagree with you.

    • ghazwatulhind / Apr 4 2011 7:51 pm

      With level of ethics that low, how can you compare your “wildness” with commandments of God? Do you know Zana (sex outside Marriage) has always been Haram/Forbidden? What kind of Jew are you who doesn’t even understand principles of Prophet Moses and doesn’t follow your own religious scriptures. Common prove me that a wife was allowed to suck someone’s cock or lay under him in the absence of her husband by giving examples from your own books. Can you? Hell No!

      I feel so sorry for you having such filthy mind in which your wife sucking and getting layed under another man is “okay” to you. Go ask your Jew Alim and see if he would permit you those?

      Also if society would move on the lines you suggest, they will produce only bastards and unowned offspring. Whole society would collapse within 30 years at most as there will be no one to guide those children, to teach them humanity and principles of ethics. By the way we are not comparing two ideologies here.. you are not even believer of your own ideology the first place. You are following no one and the one who doesn’t know path himself cannot comment on some one who is following some other path.

      If your wife sucking someone else’s penis or getting rimmed is okay to you.. do you think eating/drinking his biological extracts also okay? Common put a stop somewhere and then I will ask you where did you “Freedom” go.

      • iPak / Apr 4 2011 10:28 pm

        I never said it was OK, if she did that to me i`d call her a bitch but i`d divorce her because obviously she hates me enough to cheat on me. And no i am not a very religious person, i am secular. All these principles i have i have learned are from men i admired. For example, what a man can do, so can a woman.
        Let me ask you this, what if you cheated on your wife, what would be your punishment be? Will she be allowed to beat you? Kill you? What can she do if you are the one cheating?
        What about gay men and women, both our religions say they are abominations, but what do you as a person think? Do they deserve equal rights as you and me? Or death?

  3. ghazwatulhind / Apr 4 2011 11:47 pm

    From your reply I get two aspects.

    1 – Its not acceptable for any women to cheat on her husband (its true vice versa as well.)
    2 – You accept cheating wife commits a major crime, a crime big enough to leave her out of your life.

    3a – Two questions: – What if Man Cheats on wife
    3b – Matter with Homosexuals and what is their punishments.

    Regarding Point 2 – When you leave your wife out of your life, you are breaking a social and human contract which doesn’t always involve you and your wife. Children are essentially a part of it who suffer.

    Once you found there was a problem with your wife, without attempting to correct her, council her, it would be idiotic to let her go. Its just like throwing her out of home after figuring out she had a psychological or physical illness. Matting outside family is a psychological problem which must be corrected.

    Now here Islam asks Man to correct her by using non-physical means, pressurizing her, by warning her of consequences and also by counseling her and by staying out of bed from her. All non-violent and non-physical. Quran has specifically asked to stay separated at bed and now we have learned in 20th century that how much important this is to a women. It is said if a man is not performing well at work, he wouldn’t perform in bed but for women, its vice-versa. So separating from her and restraining sexual relations with is itself a penalization.

    Now supposed the same wife commits the same cheating for the 2nd/3rd/4th time and refuses to correct herself and at this stage, Allah has asked husband to use physical means to correct her. Now remember this will only mean under a special situation and within a special limits.

    Before you extend your imagination and start screaming on that, Women can get divorce from her husband at any stage at any time. At first Stage when he (husband) is hurting her emotionally to correct that or otherwise, even though she had cheated on him, or when he is trying to use physical means to (only) correct her. Even when women is at fault, she has right to withdrawn from her marriage. No obligations, no restrictions.

    Now do not forget Allah has described separation between Husband and Wife as the least liked act and the lowest in the order of acts which are permissible. Allah values marriage and wants husband and wife to reconcile, correct themselves and tolerate to live together a life which is mutually acceptable.

    If the husband has beaten his wife without a reasons, by law, women can approach court of law and demand justice on that. If it is proven that husband has harmed his wife (even emotionally only) without reason or harmed physically to a level which has hurt her considerably, she can have her husband beaten by the court or demand financial compensation form him or can even get separation. Women, let it be mother, wife or daughter, is not helpless or slave to man in Islam.

    Now do you think women is still not given equal rights or is she still kept as second grade human according to Islam? Not to forget women is given share of Father’s wealth which no other religion offered.

    Coming to your second part of Question.

    If a Husband cheats:

    Women usually less likely to know about her husband cheating because he can cheat at work or when out of home for job/business matters. But by the law, just like wife, a husband is not given permission to cheat. First, there is more obligation on Man than Women to keep on the right path. Second – If Husband cheats with a non-married girl and is found by wife, she can have her husband stoned to death for that or get separated from him and if husband if found cheating with another married women, they both would be penalized to death. Stay rational, no man will let a women beat her because if she does, she will get beaten instead but Law for men and women is the same. I need to confirm if women can beat her husband for cheating (which in reality is illogical and unrealistic) but I will get confirmation on this aspect. But I know wife can certainly drag her husband to court and get justice for him cheating on her.. no questions about it!

    Now if a Husband wants to merry some other women, he can lawfully divorce his wife first and merry the other women who he wants. Same is allowed to Women. If they want to merry someone else, they can also take divorce from their husbands and merry who ever they find right. But cheating has no room anywhere for either of them.

    Finally
    Islam doesn’t permit homosexuality at any stage by anyone. If 4 witnesses are brought and its proven men or women committed homosexuality, both of them all publically executed.

    No do not forget one thing.. for the charge of Murder, you need two eye-witnesses who would solemnly state they saw someone killing the other but for the sexual execution, you need 4 eye-witnesses to decide the punishment. So Allah has tightened the criteria and only asked to execute when they commit something very publically.

    Understand how God’s principles prevented diverse the first place and if it is inevitable, Allah permits them both and lets them go and get married again or live life as single. What other liberty and freedom could you ask?

  4. iPak / Apr 5 2011 1:30 am

    It seems to me that you are very devoted to Islam and proud of it. You talk about stoning people to death for adultery and homosexuality which in the world i live in, unlike yours, is unimaginable. It is considered barbaric and itself punishable by death. You also reminded me of a law that requires four eye witnesses for women who were raped to be able to prosecute the rapist, this again is unimaginable in my world, especially if she cannot provide four eye witnesses she is either killed or jailed for adultery.
    You fail to understand why this is disturbing to me that you think as you do, maybe it is because our worlds are too contradicting and neither can agree with the other.
    Although Islam dictates the terms by which you live by, why can`t you take the best from your faith and leave the worst in the book? I`m not sure about Islam but in my religion it says that god gave us the ability to choose and you seem to be willing to forgo that gift.

  5. iPak / Apr 5 2011 1:33 am

    By that i mean, free will.

  6. ghazwatulhind / Apr 5 2011 3:08 pm

    Its great experience for me that I am coming across questions which I myself didn’t thought about. Its a genuine question what should a women who got raped by a man in isolation do. I myself need to understand Islam’s take on that before answering you.

    For the second part, you got to set basics right to build a building which is going to achieve heights. You don’t allow foundation blocks to be loose. There are few things which are building blocks of a successful society and sex is one of the basic elements of this aspect. Islam in its society asks to do sex within your marriage only and doesn’t allow slightest deviation to it.

    You have yourself acknowledged that you wouldn’t tolerate your family doing it openly or cheating you. This holds true for the others too. Take example of driving a car on the road. While driving a you can turn left or you can turn right and you can equally choose to cross a crossing and keep driving straight but you cannot drive backwards on the same lane which moves forward. If somebody does so, you have to penalize him because one wrong act on behalf of him will disturb 100s of other drivers too. So is the case in Islam. You can choose to merry whoever you want to, you can leave him/her at any time when you want to but you cannot cheat or set bad example for others.

    Its truly harsh punishment to stone somebody to death and the moment I had heard of it, I had shivers in my body of imagining if it would happen to me or somebody before my eyes. Even when I am writing this, I had goose bumps thinking about it.May no one would have to under that ever but see this is preventive aspect of this punishment that this stops crimes to happen the first place.

    There are two types of crimes, 1 – Social crimes and 2 – Crimes comitted to Allah. For Social crimes, you are given a social punishment and for Sins belonging to Allah, Allah would decide the matter in Judgement day. But not all social sins are that grave and not punishment of all the sins is death. Take example of unmarried man matting with an unmarried women. Allah understands human nature and knows it is likely that somebody would commit that because of desires. So the punishment for them is not death but 100 lashes so they would refrain from doing so. If they want so, they can get married. Who is stopping them from becoming Husband and Wife.

    Second Part
    Lets compare findings of Science with Islam and understand what Islam stays is scientifically correct or not.

    Homosexuality causes 100s of sexual diseases which heterosexuality doesn’t. Do we agree? If you argue about using condoms or safety measures then what was your solution only 50 years back when condoms where not invented? What about loosing 4 (two men depriving 2 women from marriage) important social members indulging into non-productive relations? Islam is universal and time-less religion which will be applicable equally on everybody.. and yes it has strict boundaries but within boundaries, there is wealth of wellbeing for all. Having that said, you only accept these boundaries with your own will to become Muslim.

    Also recall Prophet Lout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Lot) who’s umma was destroyed for indulging into homosexuality. Homosexuality is disgraced and forbidden by Allah.

    For the last part, you are starting to believe there is some good part in Islam. Its good you finally changed your statement of “deleting all the principles of Islam”. Now you are speaking with more rationality than before.

    Regarding Free-Will
    There is no force or pushing to accept anything in Islam. Free-will is elementary to everything you do. When you recite “Kalma” (the oath of becoming Muslim), you only acknowledge two major aspects

    1 – There is no God except Allah
    2 – Prophet Mohammad PBUH is His messenger.

    Starting right from Kalma and everything remaining about practices and other parts of faith must be done by free-will and with one’s own consent. The one who acknowledges first two principles become Muslim and when he accepts remaining parts of Islam, he becomes Momin (The Pure and true subscriber) but all this journey from Muslim to Momin must be by the free-will.

    I am yet to answer one question that what is the solution when a women gets raped and she doesn’t have an evidence to support her misery. I hope I have answered the rest to you.

    May Allah help you and us all more and show us His path which leads to a successful life on earth and ahead. Aamin.

  7. iPak / Apr 5 2011 5:11 pm

    Free will applies to all even if they do not want to follow Allah`s path. And gays are obviously not allowed in Islam. And what about Muslims that want to leave Islam?
    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”
    You are missing my point, i am trying to show that there are a lot of evil things in the Qoran. Killing in the name of any god cannot be excused in the civilized world.
    You cannot impose your views as you clearly state about homosexuals, if they were born Homosexual Muslims, then they should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit.

  8. ghazwatulhind / Apr 6 2011 10:12 pm

    Again a good question to Islam. Why cannot a Muslim Leave Islam after embracing it. I need to investigate on this as well so I need a research before getting back to you.

    But I am glad you are moving your questions on and not pushing on the ones which I answered before. Does that mean you are, even if to a limit, agreeing to them? If no please acknowledge.

    As a response to your question, I have a question to you. You were born Jew and you never tried to figure out if being jew was okay. You also developed negative views Islam without studying it. When you are born in water, you cannot feel its water waves anything out of usual. If you were born Gay, you wouldn’t have felt if you were wrong as this was the image of life to you.

    Allah has a principle and that applies to all. Allah will judge others on the basis of given knowledge to them that if they followed the right path or went wrong on the basis of information they had. If somebody is born gay and remained isolated from rest of the world till his death, he is likely to not to know about his sin. His matter would be with Allah and its between him and Allah. Same is the case with “majnoon”, the people who are born mad and cannot understand anything beyond basics. What do you think what Islam does with them?

    Sex is a settled issue, no confusions about it that homosexuality is not allowed. For a moment, keep the religion aside and tell me which is the safest mode for the Humanity to survive. Forget what you like or what ones like.. think what is good for them. Because if you just follow “let anybody do what they like” then you must not penalize a cheating wife either. Its simple do and do not with obvious benefits.

    Now I have two questions to answer you but I wouldn’t quote some online resource as I know they are not authentic. I need to investigate and reach the depths where I could bring a logical answer to you.

  9. ghazwatulhind / Apr 8 2011 12:29 am

    iPackMan,

    You are wrong in your assumption about Quran again. Islam doesn’t kill (or ask to kill) the one who leaves Islam. There are 3 catagories of people who leave Islam and only one of them is asked to kill but he is not killed because he is an apostate, rather the same punishment exists for kafir who does that.

    So the matter is clear Alhamdolillah. Islam doesn’t stop you to leave it.. there is a free-will which you wanted. You are free to get-in and free to get-out. Only you (an apostate or kafir) is stopped and killed when he is hostile to Muslims and Islam and fights with Muslims or produces fitna.

    Read more over here:Matter of Apostates in Islam

  10. ghazwatulhind / Apr 8 2011 12:41 am

    And Thanks to Allah almighty, I am able to learn that Quran has given death penalty to two crimes only.

    1 – Killing of the other
    2 – The one who spread Fitna (the corruption to the level that society collapses)

    And you might get surprized that this is not Mandatory Punishment for either case and if you make compensations, even Murderer and the one who produces Fasaad. Learn this.

    Matter with the one who kills:
    O you who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But if one (who killed) is forgiven by the brother of (the one killed) against ransom, there should be follow up in fairness and payment to the heir in handsome gratitude. This is a concession from your Lord and a mercy (from him). Then whoever exceeds the limit (of the ransom agreement) after this he shall have a painful chastisement. (2:178)

    Matter with one who wages war against Muslims:
    The recompense for those who wage war against God and his Messenger[4], and strive with might and main for mischief through the land[5] is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and for them in the hereafter is a severe punishment. (5:33)

    Got more questions?

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